fiscal cliff, big, big issue. there are now, it seems, growing numbers of people on both the right and the left who would like to see us just go over that fiscal cliff. how big of a problem would that be? >> that would be a big problem. i actually still believe that those -- the democrats, the administration, republicans in the final analysis don't want to see that happen. they do understand that not only would that present a problem in the near term as we went over the cliff at the end of the year, but we still then have the whole debt ceiling fight that would transpire shortly into the new year. the issue isn't simply the negative result of going over the cliff, but it's also that business, consumers, everybody continues to hold back on the uncertainty. and we believe the economy is pretty well positioned potentially in 2013 if we can put this behind us. so i think a lot of what's going on is what you would expect to see in this negotiation, very public negotiation, which is not the best way to do it. i think at